by Jennifer Vanasco, 365gay.com
October 30, 2007
365gay talked to Sharma about the myth of the Muslim monolith, how hefound his "unlikely storytellers," and the jihad - the struggle - to reconcile who you are with what you believe.
What compelled you to tell these stories?
I'm a gay Muslim myself - I think everything in my life moved me totell these stories.I was recently arrived in America in September 2001, when so much ofthe world changed forever, especially for Muslims. I remember inJanuary 2002 I was realizing very intensely that I needed to takeresponsibility for my own Islam. I knew that I needed to come out as aMuslim. And I also needed to come out as a gay man.
To be a Muslim first and gay second and lay claim to both, and tobring this discussion into the public arena, that was what we wereseeking to do with this film.
What I find really interesting about you and about this film is thatyou seem to be struggling to find a path where you can be both afaithful Muslim and an out gay person.It seems to me that in the West that might be possible – do you thinkthat's possible in Islamic countries?
I think the history of Islam and homosexuality is a complex one. Islamhas now been around for 1426 years. We often rush to pronounceall these general statements about Islam and how we should perceiveit. One of the most problematic things is that in the West we considerIslam to be this violent monolith.
All I can say is that from my experience, filming in 12 countries,believing in Islam myself, Islam is very diverse, speaks in manydifferent languages, and in many different profound ways.
You've talked elsewhere about how the West and Muslim countries seehomosexuality very differently.
In the West, we traditionally apply those titles of gay, lesbian,bisexual and transgender very easily to sexual identity, and to almostconstruct political choices around these identities.In Muslim countries, those labels of affirmation aren't applicable.The labels don't apply very easily.
That touches on an op-ed you wrote in the Huffington Post aboutIranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's visit to Columbia University.
I think President Ahmadinejad is very easy to turn into a monster. It isextremely unfortunate how he was treated at Columbia. What people needto understand is the statements he made are open to interpretation.There is a huge debate over what he actually said.
Did he mean that homosexuality does not exist like it does in theWest? If so, I agree with him. It's not the same construct.
If he is denying the existence of homosexuals, then I take strongexception to that and invite him to see the film, because I filmedthem.
Islam is more diverse on the subject of homosexuality than a lot ofnon-Muslims realize.Because homosexuality has existed for as long as Islam has existed, inmany of these cultures it has often been tolerated, and has sometimesbeen celebrated.
If you look at the history, you see examples of homosexuality beingcelebrated in the arts, in poetry, through the courts of the Ottomanin Turkey, through the courts of the Mughal in India, though differentphases of the Persian empire as it developed.
A lot of the hatred, a lot of the homophobia that exists in the Muslimworld today is inherited from Colonialism. Many of the laws thatremain in countries like Egypt or India are laws that were enacted bythe British or the French. And those laws remain.
There's also sharia.
Yes. In the 20th century, there was a revival of extremist Islam. Butmost gay people living in Muslim societies today are not living undersharia law. They are also not engaging in western constructs ofhomosexuality in the same language. Pretty much they are allowed tobe, as long as they're not flaunting their sexuality or owning it in apublic way, by let's say organizing a gay pride parade in Tehran.
I found in the film that the majority of people who have same-sextendencies assume that being married in a heterosexual marriage isperfectly normal and something they're required to do by society andby religion and by culture.
So you're saying that if someone marries a person of the opposite sex,then they can have a same-sex lover as long as they don't callthemselves gay? And they won't have any trouble?
Absolutely. I can say this with confidence. I have filmed this for sixyears and grew up in India, I know that the majority of people who areattracted to the same sex within these societies are within marriages.
But then you have someone like Maryam in your film, who's clearly avery devout Muslim. She tried to be married and now feels this greatconflict between loving someone of the same sex and also being Muslim.
You're absolutely right. In the film, Maryam is a woman in partnershipwith another woman. Both of them have been married before. And theydidn't have the choice to exercise any aspect of their sexualitybecause in patriarchal societies, sexuality whether heterosexual orhomosexual is denied.
They're in a completely patriarchal Arab society where coming outwould involve tremendous risks not just to themselves but also theirfamilies, so they chose to stay invisible. The conflict is profound.
They have not been able to negotiate a relationship with Islam thatthey are comfortable with. Maryam says in the film, "Sometimes I wantto be punished." Because maybe that is what will make me feel that Iat least tried to be good. Because what I am is clearly not good inthe Islamic way.
That's what I set out to document. How do you find a space withinyourself that allows you to be as devout to God as to your ownsexuality? And how can you find a place of equal comfort withinyourself for these seemingly disparate things, love for god and lovefor someone of same sex?
Do you see this as being problematic? What is a solution for peoplelike Maryam? What I think you are saying is that men can get marriedand have lovers on the side, so for them maybe it's OK not to have thesocial construct of being gay. But maybe that doesn't work for womenin love with other women.
I don't claim to offer any easy solutions. I don't feel Islam, diverseas it is and representing such a huge swath of humanity as it does -more than a billion people - is going to have a blanket condoning ofhomosexuality in my lifetime.
What a film like this does is enables this unrepresented group ofpeople, these most unlikely storytellers of Islam, to come out andstart a discussion, to start a learning process within their owncommunities - so that there can be benefits in the longer run formany that will follow.
These are amazing stories you're telling. How did you wind upconnecting with your subjects?
Finding people was a jihad, a struggle. Underground networks exist inmost of the countries I went to - people know how to connect with eachother, to their groups. So emails were sent out, phone calls weremade.
Many times I would just end up in a particular country with a touristvisa and just camp there for the longest time just meeting people andtake repeated trips to film with them.
One of the biggest challenges for me was to gain the trust of thesubjects. I had to go with my extremely intrusive camera, enteringpersonal aspects of their lives and expecting them to share this withme.
I first met Maryam when I started making this film in 2002. Only lastyear, 2006, did she finally agree to be filmed after many years ofgaining her trust.
What helped tremendously was the commonality of our experience. Thatthe Muslim camera was being wielded by a Muslim who knew what they hadbeen though, who understood, who knew the culture. It is a film thatwas not mediated by Western eyes.
What's next for you?
The end of making a film is just a beginning of the movement. When youspend six years of your life on something, you cannot just deliver thechild and expect it to grow up.
To actually create change with the film, I am launching The MuslimDialogue Project, which will tap into networks of people hungry forthis film, and use it as a tool of education. There will also be ameeting at a secret location next year on homosexuality and prejudicein Muslim communities, with religious leaders, psychologists, doctors,queer people, to come up with skills and solutions to take back intotheir own communities. That's the goal.
.And religious leaders are open to this?
You'd be surprised. There is a vast number of Muslim religious leaderswho understand the importance of this film and are keen to engage init, but have not been able to openly support it.
But the discussion has begun now and it's not going to stop andeventually there will be people who can embrace the film publicly. Thefloodgates have opened.
Jihad for Love is showing at film festivals around the country. Formore information, click here.
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